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[ChickenFreak]

Originally Posted by rtsurvivor

You guys are both right about the quality articles. However, marketing on the net is a numbers game and spinning articles is only one way to try and grab some natural traffic.

It's a bad way. Yes, that's my opinion, but it's a pretty strongly held opinion. Spun articles reduce the utility of the web and of search engines. They're essentially Web pollution. I'd like to see them severely penalized - to the point of search engines dropping every site in every article-spinning structure on the floor - so that marketers are forced to use less toxic techniques.

[rtsurvivor]

It's just not the real world ChickenFreak. The junk going around on the web is actually no different then all of the junk mail dropped in mail boxes everyday.

Granted the junk mailers pay postage but then so do IMs. They, and I, have to pay hosting fees and other expenses.

IM marketing and Snail mail marketing is here to stay. Sorry.

I admire your thoughts about articles and blogging but I wouldn't want to try and make a solid living on it. It still all comes back to numbers for IMs.

RT...

[ChickenFreak]

Originally Posted by rtsurvivor

It's just not the real world ChickenFreak. The junk going around on the web is actually no different then all of the junk mail dropped in mail boxes everyday.

Well, no, I'd say that spun articles are more like people going into the public library and shoving a lot of catalogs and brochures onto the shelves, so that it's hard to find the actual books.

Or putting pamphlets on car windshields. Or tacking them on telephone pole or other surfaces. Or making unsolicited telemarketing calls. Or stuffing flyers in mailboxes without permission.

All of which are, by the way, _illegal_ in many areas. The cry that "but they make money!" is not considered relevant. Of course they make money - when does a business do something without intending to make money at it? That doesn't make every business practice OK.

Now, maybe the argument is that voluntary good behavior isn't possible. If, for example, every fast food restaurant pours their fat down the storm drain, then maybe the one that would like to be well-behaved can't afford the extra cost of disposing of it properly. So we make a law, and we enforce it, and we make pollution more expensive than proper disposal, and everybody pays for proper disposal and raises the price of a burger by one point seven cents, and the good guys can be good and stay in business.

So I'd advocate doing the same for the web. Now, for the situation of flooding the web with duplicate content, I don't want a law - I value the First Amendment _far_ more than I hate the clogging of search engine results. So search engines and customers are the rulemakers. I hope that the search engines penalize this behavior more and more harshly, and as a customer, I certainly won't be dealing with any business that I see advertising on these sites.

Edited to add: In any case, you're being admirably polite and I'm getting cranky, so I'm resolving to stop here and let you have the last word at this point.

[rtsurvivor]

Cranky is a good tension reliever. Sometimes it clears the air.

If you make it a quest I wish you best.

With that, the best to you

RT...

[Melody]

rtsurvivor - You've said you're blogging because your blog is a "cash cow"? I'd love to know what you consider a cash cow. Are you living on $100,000 a year? Nonetheless, even if you've found some way to make a living from blogging (and I don't consider making $50k a year a living) this process is not something that is respectable: You're just making repetitive content, and you're motives aren't even that you're passionate about a topic.

And really look at what others are doing with their blogs. Lots of people are successfully blogging the legitimate way. Passionate about a topic, producing good content.

You can't make a living being a blogger. Adsense is not going to pay a mortgage, healthcare, fund your retirement, pay your vacations, buy your car cash ... unless you're maybe a well-known name like Guy Kawasaki or someone like that. Or if you're a blogger who makes money with speaking engagements (think Scott Stratten at Unmarketing, or Valorie Maltoni at Conversation Agent) then you'll want to do everything possible to maintain the prestige of your blog, and this article spinning won't serve your purposes.

[rtsurvivor]

Melody there are all sorts of thoughts on what is and is not a blog. The true blog, like you are saying, is a sounding board for your thoughts and maybe some ideas you would like to pass along.

A marketing blog is a different creature. They are designed to promo just about anything for sale. That's what I am now doing.

Adsense, or one of the other PPC services, can be a viable way to make a fair amount of money. How? 50 - 60 -70 subject targeted blogs with ad links. These can be pumped out week after week. Is this the right way to blog? Probably not but this is also the real world and to survive some rules have to be bent.

Circumstances can change a life; it did for me. I just put up a new blog about what knocked me down. A Brain Aneurysm (This is actually a remake of one I kept on Blogspot) My situation is not all that unique.

Some are required to work at home. Stuffing envelopes is a giant rip-off so that leaves the net. And $50,000 isn't a lot? I didn't know that.

The information I post about fuzzy green widgets is informative and also for sale. A spun article on EzineArticles, or HUB, is also informative but not quite as informative as the original article on my "FuzzyGreenWidget.com" blog.

A good writer leaves the reader wanting more, a good page turner if you will. A spun article should preform the same type of function. A good "Bio" at the end of an article may just get the reader of the spun article to turn the page.

Making a living on line is not wrong. It's unfortunate but blogs are one of the many venues that are used by IMs. Sorry.
RT...

[ChickenFreak]

rtsurvivor, I'm breaking my resolve long enough to ask a question: When you refer to "spinning" an article, what are you referring to? Do you mean the usual thesaurus chopped salad, as in:

- Learn to use fuzzy green widgets in the garden

spun to become:

- Understand to utilize fuzzy green widgets in the outdoor space
- Study to employ fuzzy green widgets in the patch
- Review to capitalize fuzzy green widgets in outdoor tracts
- Train in tap fuzzy green widgets in the oasis

where the content is similarly identical, with a similar word and phrase substitution? I realize that your spinning may be _better_, but still, are we talking about essentially the same article with words and phrases pushed around?

Or are you talking about actual _different_ content, as in a short article on

- How to use fuzzy green widgets when planting carrots

on some other site, as a preview to the full article on your site

- How to use fuzzy green widgets in the home garden

where the content of the two articles are truly _different_, not just saladized to look different to the search engines, and both are written to the same quality, even though one contains much more information?

The second, I wouldn't call spinning at all. The first is what I'm vehemently complaining about.

I went to your "knowing where to buy foreign currency" post and I can't tell which one is going on - it's pretty coherent, but there appears to be some thesaurus salad going on there, and it's not as well written as your posts here or your brain aneurysm blog. I don't know if that means that you spun it, or you bought it from a less able writer than yourself, or you bought it from someone who spun it before selling it, or it's your original content and your muse was a little distracted that day.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by rtsurvivor

Some are required to work at home. Stuffing envelopes is a giant rip-off so that leaves the net. And $50,000 isn't a lot? I didn't know that.

In my city, $50k a year is very little money. I would not be able to live on that. Seattle, Washington (WA) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, sex offenders, news, sex offenders

I think that most people have false hopes with blogging that they're ever going to see $50k a year. I would imagine the percentage of people who make $50k a year blogging is tiny. If anyone here is earning $50k a year, I'd love to know it.

$50k a year, in my city, is not going to fund your retirement, pay the mortgage, pay your health care, and leave you with money for your vacation. Notice that per the data I gave above, the median household income in Seattle is like $61k a year. Median rent is $940 a month.

Fundamentally, ads on blogs generally bring in trivial amounts of money. Maybe you can live on $50k a year if you're in a cheap city, but the odds that you'll be one of the few earning that is very small. It would be more worthwhile for you to do things like invest in your education, move to prosperous economic markets, and find work that pays well.

On the other hand, I do think that some legitimate bloggers, with very high page ranked, quality blogs, DO make big bucks. From what I can see, these are the people who get paid to do public speaking about their niche that you see in their blog, and/or have published books related to their blog niche. Honestly, I think that's where the money is - But you don't get to have that kind of success until you're nearly a micro-celebrity status. And you can only get there with very legitimate blog content, not spun articles.

[rtsurvivor]

Hi Melody and Chicken. I wonder how these things get out of hand.

$50k is a lot of money to those that can't get a job, or it's sad to say, a baby boomer. I know a number of people in their mid to upper 50s that can't buy a job. Their 50k+ income went right down the flusher. And, what's even worse is that they are not alone.

Moving right along.

Good spun articles are articles that have Contextual Relevance and they show a Syntactical Resemblance to the original. It's not a case of shifting paragraphs or subbing synonyms. This is sometimes referred to LSA or Latent Semantic Analysis. A 70+% change is preferable but 50% will work.Google uses this sort of an Algorithm to check for hash.

Spun articles, good ones that is, can be used to "Invite" people to your site. Placing articles on some of the "Web 2.0" sites can in effect show off your stuff.

Placing an article about "Fuzzy Green Widgets" on HUB, Squidoo, and a host of other Web 2.0 sites will give those that do not know you exist a chance to see what you can do. They may then visit your site to see the real you.

Now, suppose that your site/blog is a portal to affiliate programs. Traffic, which is the name of the IM game, may increase a substantial amount and that can translate into Dollars. That is the real world.

The PLR articles that get hacked to death are a disgrace. No argument there. However, even the PLR articles can be brought back to life when handled right.

RT...

[sfhd.web3]

100 visitors are good but 1000 are better. The net is not fair so as an IM you may just have to bend a bit. If your blog is designed as a personal stop then the original quality articles are a must. However, if it's designed as a cash cow then the rules will have to fit the marketing system in order to make the best amount